E70 X5m Platform Obsolete?

[werdn]

Hello,

I am considering buying a E70 X5m, as I still am in love with the design of the E70, and love its heavy hydraulic steering rack. I also know the general E70 pretty well as I have a E70 4.8i at 170,000miles since new. It is the only BMW I have kept all this time.

However, in my years of research, it seems like the S63 engine is a bit left out compared to its more used S63TU cousin. Furthermore, there just seems to not be much aftermarket parts for this platform. Maybe this is a X5m problem in general across all generations?

Aside from that, there are also reliability concerns. Most problems aren't bad, like the "Y" coolant pipe, as I know how to wrench on my own cars (as long as they don't require dropping the engine/transmission). However, I have heard online (forgot where) that some services require the engine to be dropped? Does anyone know what jobs require the engine or transmission to be out?

Are these cars still worth getting, they are quite cheap now, and money can be set aside for parts. Thanks.

[KClemente]

Currently have my X5M with 144k miles. Transfer case went out but got one on ebay for pretty cheap. Easy enough replacement. Replaced the turbo coolant lines and the Y adapter. Have lots of oil leaks from what I suspect are the valve cover gaskets and maybe upper oil pan gasket. Or the semi-dreaded turbo oil return cover gasket.

It'll only blow smoke if I let it idle for 10 minutes and rev it. So the valve stems are doing okay.

The thing that requires engine out is walnut blasting the intake valves. The rear coolant cover requires transmission out service.

If you want to mod, at least the saving grace is that it uses the same downpipes as early N63's with the 2 bolt flange on the bottom. Gonna get some alibaba downpipes for about $120 shipped in a few weeks.

If you do end up getting one and want to do an exhaust, I can safely recommend deleting the muffler and adding an x-pipe right after the resonators. Not too loud and literally almost no drone in the cabin no matter what rpm. Engine sounds amazing and doesn't sound like two 4 cyl's anymore.

Though the drone part may change when I go catless.

To be honest, I don't know if I could recommend this car unless you really like tinkering like I do. Aftermarket support is rough, tuning is abysmally expensive for the 40-50 whp gain. I would rather get a cheap F06 M6 since technically they would require the same amount of work but in a way cooler car.

[werdn]

Originally Posted by KClemente

Currently have my X5M with 144k miles. Transfer case went out but got one on ebay for pretty cheap. Easy enough replacement. Replaced the turbo coolant lines and the Y adapter. Have lots of oil leaks from what I suspect are the valve cover gaskets and maybe upper oil pan gasket. Or the semi-dreaded turbo oil return cover gasket.

It'll only blow smoke if I let it idle for 10 minutes and rev it. So the valve stems are doing okay.

The thing that requires engine out is walnut blasting the intake valves. The rear coolant cover requires transmission out service.

If you want to mod, at least the saving grace is that it uses the same downpipes as early N63's with the 2 bolt flange on the bottom. Gonna get some alibaba downpipes for about $120 shipped in a few weeks.

If you do end up getting one and want to do an exhaust, I can safely recommend deleting the muffler and adding an x-pipe right after the resonators. Not too loud and literally almost no drone in the cabin no matter what rpm. Engine sounds amazing and doesn't sound like two 4 cyl's anymore.

Though the drone part may change when I go catless.

To be honest, I don't know if I could recommend this car unless you really like tinkering like I do. Aftermarket support is rough, tuning is abysmally expensive for the 40-50 whp gain. I would rather get a cheap F06 M6 since technically they would require the same amount of work but in a way cooler car.

Hey, thanks for the reply.

The main reason why I want the E70 X5m is because I am familiar with the E70 chassis, and love the looks and steering of the car. I am looking for an additional 100-150hp on my 4.8i, and I think the X5m will perfectly fill this void.

Luckily, I am quite used to DIY and have accumulated quite the number of tools working the 4.8i.

It is good that only walnut blasting needs the engine out. I am assuming that is only every 70k miles or so? I am familiar with the rear coolant cover, as I had that done by a shop.

Thank you for the exhaust recommendation. The 4-cylinder sounding part of the engine is one of my gripes with the car. Is the zip tie exhaust valve mod the same as a muffler delete? Would you recommend this as a daily (assuming I find one with <70k miles) for someone who does 18k miles a year?

Is the turbo oil return cover gasket difficult because you have to take everything off the top? I have done the coolant transfer pipe on the N62 in my 4.8i, so I am assuming I have to take around the same amount of stuff apart with the addition of turbos.

Thanks.

[KClemente]

Being that you're familiar with the V8's already and have diy skills, it very well may be the car for you.

As for walnut blasting, there's not enough evidence on S63's that suggest when to do it but catch cans will forsure help. There are many threads on catch cans

I've done an oil return cover on an M6 before and they're pretty much the same procedure. I wouldn't call it hard at all. Maybe a 4-6 hour job for someone who hasn't done it before.

The zip tie is a moderate increase in noise but it really depends on what kind of exhaust you want. Focus on the x-pipe if you want to get rid of that 4 cylinder sound.

Under 70k miles would be a decent starting point but just realize that these cars are really hard to sell so prepare to be at a loss in the future.

I will say that I have lots of experience tuning N54's and gave self tuning my S63 a shot. I lowered coolant target from 224 F to about 185 F which in theory would help keep the valve stem seals cooler. I also turned off cold start since that was just really loud. But don't get me wrong, the car is actually decently quiet for being almost straight pipe. I'm not kidding when I say that there is barely any drone even on the highway.

There are a few key money saving diy projects (no particular order):

1. Vacuum pump gasket
2. Valve cover gaskets
3. Turbo oil return cover
4. Upper and lower oil pan gasket (upper requires dropping subframe so dependent on your diy skills, but lower is easy to do)
5. Oil pump chain tension check (ust drop lower oil pan - easy to do.)
6. Catch can and/or refreshed pcv tubes

Here are some links:

X-pipe comparison
Possible tune avenue (I recommend asking for lower coolant temp and maybe cold start delete if you go straight pipe)

To finish it off, I don't want to scare you but these motors may spin a rod bearing so if you can, send it off to a shop to get them replaced. Benefit of that is that you'll get a new upper oil pan gasket. It is very rare, but a good time to do if you want to target the upper oil pan gasket.

[werdn]

Thanks for the information!

I am assuming the S63 does not have much information, but since the S63TU is pretty similar, are most S63TU guides applicable for the S63 engines? I also heard the E70 X5m and the F85 X5m are quite similar in parts too.

I'm not too worried about depreciation or selling at a loss, as I am probably gonna maintain it as long as possible and drive it to the ground.

You are kinda scaring me on the rod bearings hahaha. I might see if there are any 3rd party warranties for this car. Maybe something like ASC?

[KClemente]

It's definitely not a bad issue its just that I would feel bad about recommending such a tedious motor without listing its flaws.

There's guides on the forum / youtube on doing the oil pump chain tension, coolant y fitting, and oil return cover. The oil return cover is pretty much the same procedure as the S63tu.

Some shops and dealers quote the valve cover gaskets as an engine out procedure but many people on this forum did it with just a few special tools (flex head fuel line socket from CTA) and a weekend. I'll be doing my valve cover gaskets next month or two

But like I said, the rod bearings are very uncommon, but if the upper oil pan is leaky which isn't uncommon, then you might as well do the bearings anyway for the extra few hundred bucks.

[werdn]

Ok thanks for the info.

I also read that the spark plugs need to be replaced every 30k miles or so on this car.

When stock, would you say the car is around the speed of a M340i? I know the car is quite heavy.

[werdn]

Ok thanks for the info.

I also read that the spark plugs need to be replaced every 30k miles or so on this car.

When stock, would you say the car is around the speed of a M340i? I know the car is quite heavy.

[werdn]

Originally Posted by KClemente

It's definitely not a bad issue its just that I would feel bad about recommending such a tedious motor without listing its flaws.

There's guides on the forum / youtube on doing the oil pump chain tension, coolant y fitting, and oil return cover. The oil return cover is pretty much the same procedure as the S63tu.

Some shops and dealers quote the valve cover gaskets as an engine out procedure but many people on this forum did it with just a few special tools (flex head fuel line socket from CTA) and a weekend. I'll be doing my valve cover gaskets next month or two

But like I said, the rod bearings are very uncommon, but if the upper oil pan is leaky which isn't uncommon, then you might as well do the bearings anyway for the extra few hundred bucks.

Hey, I saw that there are two expansion tanks in the vehicle. There is one expansion tank that is shared with other e70 x5's and an intercooler expansion tank.

Does the intercooler expansion tank also crack and leak coolant like the main expansion tank?