[Chez]

LOL AMG

[trey100]

Originally Posted by fcman

From what I've read the C450 is simply being renamed the C43 (and coming as a coupe), so I wouldn't expect much of a change in price, unless Merc is trying to pull a fast one.

According to what I read the C450 is the sedan, and the coupe will be the c43

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...coupe-revealed

The coupes cost a little more than the sedan once again according to the above. Similar to the M3 vs M4

[CedarZ4]

Originally Posted by Chez

LOL AMG

Almost every manufacture who has a performance sub division, e.g. M, S, AMG, are guilty of slapping badges onto cars to improve sales and money flow. If anything, BMW might be worse as they put "M" badges everywhere on cars with "M-Performance package" or parts. If I'm not mistaken, MB only uses AMG wording on non-AMG cars on their wheels (plus the actual badge now), but not various interior trim parts.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by trey100

According to what I read the C450 is the sedan, and the coupe will be the c43

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...coupe-revealed

The sedan will also be renamed C43 starting with MY2017. From the article you just posted:

"The C43 Coupe is basically the coupe version of the Mercedes-Benz C450 sedan, which itself is expected to be rebranded a Mercedes-AMG C43."

[rob24ert]

Originally Posted by fcman

From what I've read the C450 is simply being renamed the C43 (and coming as a coupe), so I wouldn't expect much of a change in price, unless Merc is trying to pull a fast one.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by CedarZ4

Almost every manufacture who has a performance sub division, e.g. M, S, AMG, are guilty of slapping badges onto cars to improve sales and money flow. If anything, BMW might be worse as they put "M" badges everywhere on cars with "M-Performance package" or parts. If I'm not mistaken, MB only uses AMG wording on non-AMG cars on their wheels (plus the actual badge now), but not various interior trim parts.

It's all BS and confusing as hell, BMW is prob the worst honestly. Even number coupes except for GC 4 doors, GT everything, that's confusing without even getting into base, kinda M, real M, M SUVs which I think is a BS concept anyway.

Audi is prob cleanest with exception of SQ5 and upcoming SQ7. Until they start making RS SUVs that is.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

Audi is prob cleanest with exception of SQ5 and upcoming SQ7. Until they start making RS SUVs that is.

Too late. RSQ3 is already out.
[img]http://images.car.bauercdn.com/pagef...01audirsq3.jpg[/img]

[trey100]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

The sedan will also be renamed C43 starting with MY2017. From the article you just posted:

"The C43 Coupe is basically the coupe version of the Mercedes-Benz C450 sedan, which itself is expected to be rebranded a Mercedes-AMG C43."

You are correct. Thanks. The article does state that the coupe will be somewhat more than the sedan in either case. That was the point of my original post.

[Supra2k6]

I thought Audi has S-line a4 a3, etc S-line.

S badging on the wheel, fender steering wheel trim. Then they have an S then RS

A4, A4 s-line, S4, RS4.

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

It's all BS and confusing as hell, BMW is prob the worst honestly. Even number coupes except for GC 4 doors, GT everything, that's confusing without even getting into base, kinda M, real M, M SUVs which I think is a BS concept anyway.

Audi is prob cleanest with exception of SQ5 and upcoming SQ7. Until they start making RS SUVs that is.

[gtron]

here's the other thread that we discussed this in:
http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1214687

i was thinking about getting one but could never get over the fake exhaust tips. i was behind one recently and it just looked so terrible and i couldn't look away. once you see it, you can't unsee it. don't get me wrong, it's fine on some cars (lexus) but not on anything with amg stamped on it imo.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by trey100

You are correct. Thanks. The article does state that the coupe will be somewhat more than the sedan in either case. That was the point of my original post.

Indeed. Just like every other coupe (with perhaps rare exceptions) is more expensive than its sedan counterpart. A C300 coupe is more than a C300 sedan, a C63 coupe is more than a C63 sedan, and it was going to be similar for the midlevel products whether they are called both called C450, both called C43, or one is called the first name and one is called the other (which would be so blatantly confusing, it would be as if they were trying to make shopping their products a torturous experience).

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by CedarZ4

Almost every manufacture who has a performance sub division, e.g. M, S, AMG, are guilty of slapping badges onto cars to improve sales and money flow. If anything, BMW might be worse as they put "M" badges everywhere on cars with "M-Performance package" or parts. If I'm not mistaken, MB only uses AMG wording on non-AMG cars on their wheels (plus the actual badge now), but not various interior trim parts.

I think its a little weird this same sort of non-point keeps coming up.

Here's the thing - this isn't about the AMG branding. It's not really that at all, because the car was already called the "AMG C450 Sport". It already had AMG in the name.

Ok, so that's not it. What's it about then?

What this is about - and again its not really about anything else at all - is that Mercedes is now using the exact same nomenclature for all AMG products, so any difference between them, from a badging perspective, is now gone.

So if we make a list of some arbitrary AMG products:

S63
C43
CLA45
GLE43

You can't tell from the model name anymore which ones are the real deal with the hand built engine and the AMG specific chassis development, and all the other stuff that makes the car competitive with a M division proper product or Quattro RS product.

Here's a similar list of BMW products:

M3
M135i
M550d
M6

See the difference up there? Look closely, you can see it. Real M products just use a single digit. Easy to know exactly what you are being sold.

So that's the deal.

Now, is this all a big deal? Not necessarily. I certainly don't care what you call a product as long as it meets my expectations of performance and value. But that's just the thing - Mercedes can now begin to obscure things here, and mix content of what were separately tiered products without it showing up in the model name. So then, it opens the door for all manner of decontenting. Of course, in affect, this is just an acknowledgement by Mercedes that its customers really care about the badge first and the product's capabilities second. That's a shame but not exactly big news.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Too late. RSQ3 is already out.
[img]http://images.car.bauercdn.com/pagef...01audirsq3.jpg[/img]

Forgot about that one. Don't get me wrong, I don't give 2 shits about what any brand decides to name their cars. It gets confusing but we're not talking imaginary math or dark matter here. 30 seconds of investigating and it's pretty easy to understand. If rebadging something as a "premium lite" version or whatever helps them sell more cars, more power to them. I haven't lost any interest in my upcoming RS3 now that you reminded me that there's an SUV out there wearing the badge.

Find the world generally falls into two groups. Small minority understand this stuff and appreciate the fact that the M2 is better than the 235 which is better than the 228, for instance. Those folks tend not to care about the topic at hand. Large part of the population can get granular to about the BMW is sportier than Mercedes, Audi is better than Nissan level. There's no additional aura or mystique to one BMW versus another.

[Em135eye]

If it makes it go faster (M performance, M, RS, S, proper AMG) I don't care.
If it doesn't (M Sport, S-line, faux AMG styling), it's an embarrassment.

[Never_Enough]

A good tune should wake it up nicely.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by BoostedRide

A good tune should wake it up nicely.

It does indeed, Brabus offers one. Expensive though.

[DDD31]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

I think its a little weird this same sort of non-point keeps coming up.

...

Now, is this all a big deal? Not necessarily. I certainly don't care what you call a product as long as it meets my expectations of performance and value. But that's just the thing - Mercedes can now begin to obscure things here, and mix content of what were separately tiered products without it showing up in the model name. So then, it opens the door for all manner of decontenting. Of course, in affect, this is just an acknowledgement by Mercedes that its customers really care about the badge first and the product's capabilities second. That's a shame but not exactly big news.

Is the M2 or the 1M a true M product since they don't have bespoke engines?

It's confusing from all manufacturers.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by DDD31

Is the M2 or the 1M a true M product since they don't have bespoke engines?

It's true, but not particularly relevant here.

Those vehicles still have significant performance gains over the rest of their siblings and sit clearly at the top of the lineup. They have specially designed features to give them the performance the vehicle needs to compete with the top products in the class from other manufacturers such as ample power, a high performance transmission (missed on the low production 1M, added to the M2), completely upgraded chassis, and more.

If the M2 had a detuned S55 instead of a higher output N55, it would be a heavier and more expensive car. If M had played the game as Mercedes is, they would have called the engine an S56 instead, and then we wouldn't even be making these posts right now.

An M5/M6 don't have wider fenders than the series car - are they still true M products? Certainly they are.

[DDD31]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

It's true, but not particularly relevant here.

An M5/M6 don't have wider fenders than the series car - are they still true M products? Certainly they are.

I was just pointing out that you can't really tell by BMW's naming convention either if it's a true M car either since the M2 and 1M might not be considered true M cars by the purists.

I agree with you though, I feel that both the M2 and 1M are true M car but I'm sure some people disagree.

I feel that all the brands have diluted their heritage (AMG, M, RS, S) since it's mostly just a marketing tool now.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by DDD31

I was just pointing out that you can't really tell by BMW's naming convention either if it's a true M car either since the M2 and 1M might not be considered true M cars by the purists.

I can tell pretty easily because I ignore the purists and measure the car up to its modern-day competitors, such as a CLA45, with which it competes very well.

The C450 competes well against its modern day competitors too - such as the S4/S5, 340i/440i, among others. Changing the name to C43 won't make it compete any more favorably, but it will make some people think it does, including some who posted in this thread which you can see plainly from the tone of those particular posts.

[b0bab0i]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

I think its a little weird this same sort of non-point keeps coming up.

Here's the thing - this isn't about the AMG branding. It's not really that at all, because the car was already called the "AMG C450 Sport". It already had AMG in the name.

Ok, so that's not it. What's it about then?

What this is about - and again its not really about anything else at all - is that Mercedes is now using the exact same nomenclature for all AMG products, so any difference between them, from a badging perspective, is now gone.

So if we make a list of some arbitrary AMG products:

S63
C43
CLA45
GLE43

You can't tell from the model name anymore which ones are the real deal with the hand built engine and the AMG specific chassis development, and all the other stuff that makes the car competitive with a M division proper product or Quattro RS product.

Here's a similar list of BMW products:

M3
M135i
M550d
M6

See the difference up there? Look closely, you can see it. Real M products just use a single digit. Easy to know exactly what you are being sold.

So that's the deal.

Now, is this all a big deal? Not necessarily. I certainly don't care what you call a product as long as it meets my expectations of performance and value. But that's just the thing - Mercedes can now begin to obscure things here, and mix content of what were separately tiered products without it showing up in the model name. So then, it opens the door for all manner of decontenting. Of course, in affect, this is just an acknowledgement by Mercedes that its customers really care about the badge first and the product's capabilities second. That's a shame but not exactly big news.

They said they were gonna release the 43 models across the board, including an E43.

It will be pretty weird when they have this lineup:
E250
E350
E43
E550
E63

The E43 is slower and makes less power than the E550.

[rainfall]

I think they wanna compete w 4 series, not 2. At least this year's C coupe has a 111in wheelbase and it's pretty heavy too. Unless they change things significantly, it won't attract the same customers as the 2 series buyers.