[Bartledoo]

Schumi's mistakes were a bit more sinister though haha. Like failing to properly crash out his rival for the championship, and then getting called out by Martin Brundle in epic fashion.

[msk340i]

Originally Posted by racerbruce

F1 WDC
SCH: 7
VET: 4

Let’s see if VET can equal SCH’s record.

He cannot! I will admit the RB was strong but people can't say it was because of his car that he won the championship.
2010 and 2011his teammate finished 3rd. 2013 his teammate finished 3rd. 2013 his teammate finished 6th. Both drivers had the same car so one would expect a 1-2 finish like Lewis and Nico or Schmacher's 2002 and 2004.

In the end he's a great driver under more pressure than any other driver on the grid. I would love to see him win a championship with Ferrari. Just because he's a no bullshit (modeling and clothing lines... Like you know who).

[racerbruce]

When you look at how well-behaved (or not) top-tier F1 pilots have been in recent history, you see a pattern of agressive, unacceptable behavior.

The two most egregious are Senna, Prost and Schumacher. SEN when he took out PRO ....PRO when he took out SEN....and SCH when he intentionally shunted his Ferrari at the LaRascasse turn in Monaco during qualy....to block a hot lap of a competitior.

And Hamilton vs Rosberg....HAM and ROS taking eachother out at Spain.

At times, the best top-tier F1 pilots in history have behaved as if they were competing in a demolition derby.

[six_timer]

Originally Posted by racerbruce

The two most egregious are Senna, Prost and Schumacher.

This would make a great signature quote.

[racerbruce]

Originally Posted by five_timer

This would make a great signature quote.

Correction; that's 3....not 2.

[MJE60]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

It's unbelievable. As I have said it before, Mr. Vettel and his championships are the most suspect in history. Two of them are deserved, the other 2 are simply Newey Championships. He was run out of Redbull by Mr. Ricciardo and is about to be run out of the Scuderia by Mr. LeClerc. He is being unmasked one event after another from internal pressure, LEC, and external pressure, HAM.

It's almost over.

Glad I may not be the only one to get the feeling that Leclerc became no.1 driver for Scuderia in Bahrain. It is possible that wash from HAM and tailwind exacerbated a tail-happy tendency in the car but this has happened to VET too often. Interesting also, we agree, it may be my age (I have actually watched 4+ decades of F1) but I know a driver with flattering stats when I see one.

Finally, were the Ferrari power units running in qually mode for much of the race? Pressure on the team to perform on a “Ferrari circuit” must have been high. Did you also catch Leclerc after race comment, he said he would have been out of fuel if not for safety car. I know it may be due to engine issue but If not “qualy mode”, I wonder how light they went?, pressure again.

[racerbruce]

Originally Posted by MJE60

Glad I may not be the only one to get the feeling that Leclerc became no.1 driver for Scuderia in Bahrain. It is possible that wash from HAM and tailwind exacerbated a tail-happy tendency in the car but this has happened to VET too often. Interesting also, we agree, it may be my age (I have actually watched 4+ decades of F1) but I know a driver with flattering stats when I see one.

Finally, were the Ferrari power units running in qually mode for much of the race? Pressure on the team to perform on a “Ferrari circuit” must have been high. Did you also catch Leclerc after race comment, he said he would have been out of fuel if not for safety car. I know it may be due to engine issue but If not “qualy mode”, I wonder how light they went?, pressure again.

Well said on all points; LEC was the star of the Prancing Horse stable at Bahrain and beyond, for sure....I've watched 3+ decades of F1 and aspire to reach your esteemed status

I found it interesting that LEC would comment on his low fuel status....normally, the team (including drivers) are sworn to secrecy, with some exceptions....

The BIG exception was the 1976 Japanese GP....the last race of the season and the winner would determine the WDC....the rain was so egregious the race was delayed multiple hours....Hunt and Lauda were destined to determine the win and championship....Hunt drove like a crazy man in the blind conditions....Lauda had just survived 55+ seconds in a 800F + massive shunt at the Ring, and came in the pits....when asked by the Team Principal why he came in, Lauda said it was unsafe conditions....Ferrari management said we'll just say you had a mechanical condition that caused you to stop....Lauda said no, tell them the truth.

[wdb]

Originally Posted by five_timer

HAM has been fortunate to drive for the #1 team pretty much throughout his career, something that neither VET, or Alonso, or even Schumacher could claim.

Please leave Alonso out of the discussion; as tremendous as he is behind the wheel, he is equally tremendously BAD at picking when to move to different teams. He's star crossed.

As for HAM I also have to disagree. Yes Mclaren was hot when he first came on board. But a couple of years later they were struggling, to the point that Hamilton opted to move to another well-funded but struggling team -- Mercedes. He took that mid-pack car and put it on the pole, raising his teammate Rosberg's performance level at the same time. The first year the car tended to slide back through the field during the race so he did not score the big win counts and ended up bashing wheels mid-pack. But it's hard to argue against the premise that Hamilton's arrival transformed MB into a top tier team.

Lewis Hamilton is one of the the best drivers I have seen in over 40 years of watching F1. I started following it back when guys like Jimmy Clark and Jackie Stewart were racing. Senna had magic but was not consistent. Schumacher was brilliant but also very lucky, plus he played dirty on track which to me takes him straight out of contention as one of the great drivers. (Vettel doesn't make the list at all.)

I feel fortunate to have been alive during the time that one of the all-time greatest F1 drivers did his driving. That is not to say I don't want to see him challenged! But it is a joy to watch him do his job on track.

Off track is another story...

[jkoral]

Originally Posted by racerbruce

... and SCH when he intentionally shunted his Ferrari at the LaRascasse turn in Monaco during qualy....to block a hot lap of a competitior.

That was bad, but deliberately crashing into Villeneuve when he tried to pass for the lead at the Championship decider (Jerez 1997) was worse.

Schumacher is the only driver to ever be disqualified from a Driver's Championship, which will always be a stain on his record.

[msk340i]

LEC was running out of fuel because they turned the engine up to compensate for the loss of power as per Motorsports

[six_timer]

Originally Posted by wdb

Please leave Alonso out of the discussion; as tremendous as he is behind the wheel, he is equally tremendously BAD at picking when to move to different teams. He's star crossed.

As for HAM I also have to disagree. Yes Mclaren was hot when he first came on board. But a couple of years later they were struggling, to the point that Hamilton opted to move to another well-funded but struggling team -- Mercedes. He took that mid-pack car and put it on the pole, raising his teammate Rosberg's performance level at the same time. The first year the car tended to slide back through the field during the race so he did not score the big win counts and ended up bashing wheels mid-pack. But it's hard to argue against the premise that Hamilton's arrival transformed MB into a top tier team.

Lewis Hamilton is one of the the best drivers I have seen in over 40 years of watching F1. I started following it back when guys like Jimmy Clark and Jackie Stewart were racing. Senna had magic but was not consistent. Schumacher was brilliant but also very lucky, plus he played dirty on track which to me takes him straight out of contention as one of the great drivers. (Vettel doesn't make the list at all.)

I feel fortunate to have been alive during the time that one of the all-time greatest F1 drivers did his driving. That is not to say I don't want to see him challenged! But it is a joy to watch him do his job on track.

Off track is another story...

Is the 40+ years comment supposed to convince me to adopt your point of view? Sorry.

And I'm pretty sure Alonso didn't "pick" when to change teams.

[mk1-fan]

Originally Posted by jkoral

That was bad, but deliberately crashing into Villeneuve when he tried to pass for the lead at the Championship decider (Jerez 1997) was worse.

Schumacher is the only driver to ever be disqualified from a Driver's Championship, which will always be a stain on his record.

That was the day I stopped supporting Schumacher. I just could not believe that anybody would do that. Rosberg did the same to Hamilton at the A1 ring. I just have no respect for racers like that.

[wdb]

Originally Posted by five_timer

Is the 40+ years comment supposed to convince me to adopt your point of view? Sorry.

Meh. Maybe if you'd seen Clark make the most of that pig of a Lotus with the BRM H-16 engine, you'd think better of him -- and of my opinion. Or not. No matter to me. Truth be told I was just a whippersnapper at the time so what the heck did I know anyway.

And I'm pretty sure Alonso didn't "pick" when to change teams.

More often than not it was his decision. I love the guy, truly. And he is brilliant at the wheel. But he jumped at the wrong time over and over again. Either that or he's a storm cloud over teams and they just get better/worse when he leaves/arrives.

[MJE60]

Originally Posted by wdb

Meh. Maybe if you'd seen Clark make the most of that pig of a Lotus with the BRM H-16 engine, you'd think better of him -- and of my opinion. Or not. No matter to me. Truth be told I was just a whippersnapper at the time so what the heck did I know anyway.

More often than not it was his decision. I love the guy, truly. And he is brilliant at the wheel. But he jumped at the wrong time over and over again. Either that or he's a storm cloud over teams and they just get better/worse when he leaves/arrives.

I don’t think anyone would disagree that Alonso is a brilliant driver. I am not sure about jumping, unfortunately Alonso also has an incredible talent for burning bridges. I will use HONDA as the most recent example. Everyone knew Honda had a problem with the power units but Alonso repeatedly humiliated them. The result is yet another manufacturer/team (e.g Red Bull Racing) closed off. Look back over his career and you will see he permanently closed one door after another, teams, engine suppliers and team mates. He created a very long veto list and eventually had nowhere to go. If he jumped, it may have been before being pushed (granted, not always).

For his driving skill, work ethic and analytical prowess (few surpass his ability to identify set-up issues) he is widely and rightly admired but he is also trusted by few in F1.

P.s I agree, Jim Clarke the most talented and versatile driver the sport has seen. Like so many of the greats he is a reminder of just how brutally dangerous motor racing was. I am so glad that with the emphasis on safety and help of technology I no longer have to see my heroes slaughtered every season. It is sad to see great driver pass their prime, it is nothing compared to losing them the way we used to.