[Blue Angel]

Originally Posted by testing02hwr

The EU is forcing EV down our throats and you guys are complaining about BMW? The writing was on the wall - if you expected a light, agile, gas powered M5, you live under a rock. Do you really believe Mercedes wanted to murder their beloved C63 like that? Do you think BMW developed the XM drivetrain because they thought it was good? BMW has no choice. Either they pump out fat pigs or EU sues them into bankruptcy.

What about a full EV M5? Enthusiasts would still complain and the market has proven EV will not sell.

If you were smart, you would have seen this coming and bought a manual transmission ICE engine. Conveniently, BMW still sells those.

Um, see Porsche’s solution for the 911. Not simple, but way less degrading to the vehicle platform it’s installed in.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by Blue Angel

Um, see Porsche’s solution for the 911. Not simple, but way less degrading to the vehicle platform it’s installed in.

Porsche nailed it. And they’re not even in F1!

[testing02hwr]

Originally Posted by Blue Angel

Porsche is actually innovating. This BMW drivetrain is nothing new, not impressive, and adds considerable mass. “EV Range” is something few M5 owners were looking for.

Originally Posted by Blue Angel

Um, see Porsche’s solution for the 911. Not simple, but way less degrading to the vehicle platform it’s installed in.

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

Porsche nailed it. And they’re not even in F1!

I always think the "well what about Porsche" argument is interesting. In order to match the starting MSRP of the 992.2 GTS (the only current announced model with the new hybrid system), you would have to look at the 2 MOST expensive BMW models: XM or i7 m70. No one is going to cross shop these as they are in completely different realms. If you could afford a high spec 911, you aren't using the M5 as your weekend car.
992.2 GTS MSRP $166,895
XM MSRP $159,000
i7 m70 MSRP $168,500

I think there is a reason everyone BUT Porsche is putting normal non-enthusiast hybrid systems into their cars. Their buyers are not going to stomach a 50% increase in price just to make EU lawmakers happy. Porsche buyers will buy ANYTHING. I might be mistaken but the next Cayman/Boxter will be EV only and I wouldn't be surprised if all their SUVs go EV too next gen. Porsche can make the Turbo S the only ICE model to meet regulations and people will STILL say "look at Porsche!!"

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by testing02hwr

I always think the "well what about Porsche" argument is interesting. In order to match the starting MSRP of the 992.2 GTS (the only current announced model with the new hybrid system), you would have to look at the 2 MOST expensive BMW models: XM or i7 m70. No one is going to cross shop these as they are in completely different realms. If you could afford a high spec 911, you aren't using the M5 as your weekend car.
992.2 GTS MSRP $166,895
XM MSRP $159,000
i7 m70 MSRP $168,500

I think there is a reason everyone BUT Porsche is putting normal non-enthusiast hybrid systems into their cars. Their buyers are not going to stomach a 50% increase in price just to make EU lawmakers happy. Porsche buyers will buy ANYTHING. I might be mistaken but the next Cayman/Boxter will be EV only and I wouldn't be surprised if all their SUVs go EV too next gen. Porsche can make the Turbo S the only ICE model to meet regulations and people will STILL say "look at Porsche!!"

I agree. Was just saying the tech is really cool, much lighter weight- and I hope they put it into the M3 instead of this plug-in hybrid setup in the M5. I don’t think the Porsche approach here is über expensive or difficult since BMW already has the mild hybrid technology - just needs to add the turbo recapture.

But also keep in mind the approach of the XM and M5 is probably more expensive to build and the price of the XM was approx. $50k higher than the X5M at the time of launch. That’s a huge increase in price. Porsche raised prices only $14k on the GTS - a much smaller price hike in $ and % terms. Ironic that Porsche would take the less expensive solution here and redo their engine displacement in order to find the right formula. I’m sure there’s a big R&D price tag for that.

But BMW could find a way to not be lazy and plunk a V8 and an electric motor. It’s clunky and heavy and a ridiculous solution. Of course Mercedes took an even more complex and asanine approach to the problem also while reducing cylinders and displacement.

[Blue Angel]

Originally Posted by testing02hwr

I always think the "well what about Porsche" argument is interesting. In order to match the starting MSRP of the 992.2 GTS (the only current announced model with the new hybrid system), you would have to look at the 2 MOST expensive BMW models: XM or i7 m70. No one is going to cross shop these as they are in completely different realms. If you could afford a high spec 911, you aren't using the M5 as your weekend car.
992.2 GTS MSRP $166,895
XM MSRP $159,000
i7 m70 MSRP $168,500

I think there is a reason everyone BUT Porsche is putting normal non-enthusiast hybrid systems into their cars. Their buyers are not going to stomach a 50% increase in price just to make EU lawmakers happy. Porsche buyers will buy ANYTHING. I might be mistaken but the next Cayman/Boxter will be EV only and I wouldn't be surprised if all their SUVs go EV too next gen. Porsche can make the Turbo S the only ICE model to meet regulations and people will STILL say "look at Porsche!!"

Porsche is more expensive than BMW not because of their car’s content, but because of the image and exclusivity. I see nothing in Porsche’s solution that costs much money, in fact I bet at volume scale it’s certainly cheaper since it uses a MUCH smaller battery.

BMW certainly has the Engineering capability to do something similar, they just don’t have the will to unleash their Engineers. Sad.

[xmanpro]

Originally Posted by Blue Angel

The M5 has always been a luxury car - the ultimate 5. Many of those options are just not available on a 5 anymore, which cheapens it.

Full leather and soft close doors made it stand out and helped justify its price. More and more the only thing distinctive about a 5 is the styling, and even that is getting less special.

Not sure why but lack of soft close doors really bugs me the most.

[azuki]

why is he wearing a turtleneck sweater in June? I love what they did with the rear though

[NSX2M4]

Originally Posted by azuki

why is he wearing a turtleneck sweater in June? I love what they did with the rear though

Why is he wearing a turtleneck period? Anyways, that's one ugly car. Honestly I would take a M3 over this and I don't like those either.
The interior looks so f'in cheap with all the neon'ish lighting throughout.
Geez.

[azuki]

Originally Posted by NSX2M4

Why is he wearing a turtleneck period? Anyways, that's one ugly car. Honestly I would take a M3 over this and I don't like those either.
The interior looks so f'in cheap with all the neon'ish lighting throughout.
Geez.

yeah most boomers hate the interior

[NSX2M4]

Originally Posted by azuki

yeah most boomers hate the interior

I'm not a boomer so maybe you're just a baby who can't deal with opinions.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by azuki

why is he wearing a turtleneck sweater in June? I love what they did with the rear though

That sweater is hilariously off-putting, which ironically matches this car (for me). I think the wagon makes more sense - a lowered, more efficient X5M. Should look better too?

[Blue Angel]

Originally Posted by azuki

why is he wearing a turtleneck sweater in June? I love what they did with the rear though

lol

When I worked at GMs Tech Center in Warren Michigan, the Engineers referred to the designers as “Turtlenecks”. “The Turtlenecks love to design things that can’t be practically built.”

[hufington]

I just would like to ask this dude if BMW M is not capable of creating modern M cars that are light and nimble while being quick and fast and thus closer to the "ultimate driving machine" like BMW claims!

[greentrbo95gst]

Originally Posted by ///M TOWN

It’s no surprise that you saw an ugly car

But the real question is, why are you here?

I don't think BMW is going to miss his money.

[greentrbo95gst]

Originally Posted by RAUDERRIPPER

Really was looking forward to it. But now way happier with sticking with my old ass f90 now. In line for the wagon, but at this point, won’t be worth it.

Keep the CS beauty and get a wagon to commute in. Problem solved.

[icpee]

Here's my take:

1) The M5 is not marketed as a track weapon. The model has grown in size over the years. It can actually now be considered an ultra fast 7 series. This is an autobahn cruiser, not a track toy. Look to the The M3, M4, and the M2 for that.
So for this reason there's no reason to be concerned about weight.

2) Which current BMW engine is suitable for a vehicle such as the M5? Clearly only the S68 is the viable option without having to spend millions in R&D just to develop an engine for the M5 that also needs to undercut EU emission regulations.
Look how many models share the S58 engine - The M3, M4, X3 M, X4 M, and the M2.

3) If BMW only went the ICE route, how reliable would a 700hp tuned S68 engine be?
Again EU emission regulations stepping in here. There's a reason Mercedes as well went the hybrid route.

4) M5 owners are not ready for a full EV application either. This might be possible in the next iteration of the 5 series as battery tech matures.

The above is why BMW have gone the hybrid approach.
Use an existing powerplant and marry it to an electric motor while undercutting emissions and saving millions in costs to develop a bespoke engine just for this model application.
We're in that awkward transition period going from ICE to full EV's. I'd be very surprised if the next M5 is not a full EV with quad motors.

[Moopai]

I totally agree with your below questions but I thought in one of the reviews it was mentioned that Merino leather was available in fact the video that Matt from Car Wow and RBR showed had Merino leather and for audio B&W is standard on the M5.

As to the other questions you raised, especially soft close doors I totally agree with, this is stupid of BMW to remove, the other car manufacturers are copying what BMW offers as features while BMW is slowly removing them out!

Originally Posted by RPiM5

Would love to get a personal interview with the M CEO and ask him the following questions about the G90 M5:

- Why no Full Leather option?
- Why no Non-Leather interior option for those of you who are environmentally conscience?
- Why no Premium Sound System option?
- Why no Soft Close Doors?
- Why no bespoke Sideview Mirror Design for the G90 M5 (it's same exact design from the i5 M60)?
- Why no bespoke launch color for the G90?
- Why no massaging seat functions?
- Why no fender grilles (there's still a little bit of room to design one on the fender even with the electrical plug-in door in the way)?
- Why do the M5 front seat designs look so close to the G80 M3 seats?

I would like to tell the M CEO, that yes these are things M5 customers want. Weight aside, we still care about the other things that make an M5, an M5.

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by Moopai

I totally agree with your below questions but I thought in one of the reviews it was mentioned that Merino leather was available in fact the video that Matt from Car Wow and RBR showed had Merino leather and for audio B&W is standard on the M5.

As to the other questions you raised, especially soft close doors I totally agree with, this is stupid of BMW to remove, the other car manufacturers are copying what BMW offers as features while BMW is slowly removing them out!

Yes the G90 M5 comes standard with Merino Leather interior, but it is a basic interior. What we the community are talking about is that there is no option for a Full Leather Interior. Full Leather options include things like the Dash, the door panels, the center console, etc… all covered in Merino or Nappa Leather. In short, if you buy the G90 M5, your door panels are going to be plastic and/or senatec material. This is not what everybody wants on a $140,000 car.

Second, the B&W on the G60/G90 is not the same as the Diamond Surround sound system found in the F90 M5. I’ve driven the G60 i5 M60 with the B&W system and it’s no where even close to my B&O in my F10 M5.

[Greer]

Originally Posted by icpee

The M5 is not marketed as a track weapon. The model has grown in size over the years. It can actually now be considered an ultra-fast 7 series or an "M7" This is an autobahn cruiser, not a track toy. Look to the The M3, M4, and the M2 for that.
So for this reason there's no reason to be concerned about weight.

Yes, finally someone who gets why BMW M is not concerned about the weight of the new M5. 90% of M5 owners do NOT go to the track or even do weekend spirited canyon runs. They take their kids to school and their partners to the theater, etc and drive fast on the off-ramps to the freeway. So if the car's weight is raised 1000 lbs for them it's not a deal changer. I on the other hand have owned 4 M5's and they have all been on track and almost every other weekend I am hitting the backroads and the twisties. So I will test drive the new M5 before I make up my mind up about the car. If it handles badly it will be a no for me, but I bet the BMW M engineers may surprise us all. I can't wait to see what they have done.

[DS_BMW]

Who wants to charge the car and fill it with gas? It's a pain in the ass. Why could BMW not do a performance hybrid system like the E Ray or McLaren??

[infamousq]

I have owed every M5 from the E39 until now, and this is the first time I am not interested in getting the M5. It just looks meh.

[BayDriverSF]

No thanks. 1000 pounds heavier? Worse power/weight ratio than the previous generation? Hybrid sucks.