[youyou]

Originally Posted by footie

This is something I have been complaining about for quite a while, all they are doing is buying loyalty, percentage share and global sales but at the expense of actually making profit.

At some point it will eventually catch you up and bite you on the ass.

The real surprise is that such numbers out there is the market place isn't having a dire effect on secondhand sales prices as they do here in the UK and else where. Probably because in the US and possibly Canada everyone leases them to hand back at the end of term.

Most people in North America i would say lease their cars. I myself like to change cars pretty often so buying would just make no sense since i'd lose too much money.
I think that Bmw has lost a lot of it's "exclusivity" with all the discounts and special financing/lease rates , cash backs etc.
It's downright crazy how many Bmw's you see on the road. I mean growing up when i would see a Bmw on the road i would get excited. If i saw an M3 i would just stare with dreams of one day owning one.
Nowadays it's practically as common as Honda's...
Don't get me wrong i absolutely love Bmw's and think they probably make some of the best driving cars on the planet. I'm just saying i liked it better when a Bmw was something people aspired to own when they made it financially.
Nowadays you have 17 year olds leasing Bmw's for the same thing they would pay for a Honda Accord or even a loaded Civic.

[youyou]

Originally Posted by graider

Honestly I see no reason whatsoever to trade an e93 m3 vert for an s5 cab. that is a downgrade in both look and performance IMHO.

again s4 is a 335i competitor. I would never take it over the m3. sorry

I'm not going to start naming all the reasons why i chose to trade My E93 M3 for a S5 Cab.
But here's just a few.
You live in Toronto right? Ever heard of something called Snow?
Because last time i was in TO there was about 25cm of Snow.
Thank God i had a loaner and not my M3 because i wouldn't have gotten anywhere.
So reason number 1 , Quattro .
Second is interior. Sitting in my M was 99% the same as sitting in a base 323.
Not to say that there's anything wrong with a 323, i'm just saying that when you get into a car that's close to 100k$ ( Canadian ) you want a little more luxury.
Audi's interior is far superior to any of Bmw's offerings at the moment.

Now performance wise M3 is superior but as i said not by much...

Looks well i won't even go there. I think the S5 is one of the best looking designs to come out of Germany in years... But that's me.

[graider]

Originally Posted by youyou

I'm not going to start naming all the reasons why i chose to trade My E93 M3 for a S5 Cab.
But here's just a few.
You live in Toronto right? Ever heard of something called Snow?
Because last time i was in TO there was about 25cm of Snow.
Thank God i had a loaner and not my M3 because i wouldn't have gotten anywhere.
So reason number 1 , Quattro .
Second is interior. Sitting in my M was 99% the same as sitting in a base 323.
Not to say that there's anything wrong with a 323, i'm just saying that when you get into a car that's close to 100k$ ( Canadian ) you want a little more luxury.
Audi's interior is far superior to any of Bmw's offerings at the moment.

Now performance wise M3 is superior but as i said not by much...

Looks well i won't even go there. I think the S5 is one of the best looking designs to come out of Germany in years... But that's me.

- i would never drive a soft top vert in winter.
- i drive my m3 in winter, north of toronto which is even colder/more snow than toronto, no problem whatsoever and I daily drive my car 90mile round trip. good winter tire is key in winter and i'm on oem 19 with winter. still no problem with this much snow, LOL
- I sat in both at the car show and honestly I cannot see the differences in lux/quality between the s5 or the m3. the s5 seat looks a little cooler than the m3 seat since it is made by recaro, but the dash on the s5 is loaded with button which is not really to my liking. the nav on the m3 is nicer cause it position higher within driving sight, etc. so there are pro/con from both side but I don't think the s5 is anymore luxurious than the m3 interior. the s5 interior is basically the same as q7, a4, a5, a6, a8. same for the m3. the interior is basically the same as a 3 series, but the leather, steering, etc are much nicer.
- no argument about the look cause you have your own taste.

[youyou]

Originally Posted by graider

- i would never drive a soft top vert in winter.
- i drive my m3 in winter, north of toronto which is even colder/more snow than toronto, no problem whatsoever and I daily drive my car 90mile round trip. good winter tire is key in winter and i'm on oem 19 with winter. still no problem with this much snow, LOL
- I sat in both at the car show and honestly I cannot see the differences in lux/quality between the s5 or the m3. the s5 seat looks a little cooler than the m3 seat since it is made by recaro, but the dash on the s5 is loaded with button which is not really to my liking. the nav on the m3 is nicer cause it position higher within driving sight, etc. so there are pro/con from both side but I don't think the s5 is anymore luxurious than the m3 interior. the s5 interior is basically the same as q7, a4, a5, a6, a8. same for the m3. the interior is basically the same as a 3 series, but the leather, steering, etc are much nicer.
- no argument about the look cause you have your own taste.

1. This soft top is just as insulated as my hard top M3 was. Really quite impressive.

2. Different strokes for different folks i guess but for me it's nothing short of a daily hassle. And i had the absolute best studded winter tires.

[hl0m4n]

well it looks like the pics have surfaced: http://e90post.com/forums/showthread...&highlight=rs5

hope it comes to US

[Garduna]

Originally Posted by hl0m4n

well it looks like the pics have surfaced: http://e90post.com/forums/showthread...&highlight=rs5

hope it comes to US

HOLY SHIT THAT THINGS LOOKS GORGEOUS!!!!!

[hl0m4n]

official engine specs: http://www.autoblog.com/2010/02/22/o...450-hp-4-2l-v/

NA 4.2L Direct Injection V8
450 HP
370 TQ
8250 Redline

Price is ridiculous, i don't care if it comes to the states anymore but in europe it will be €77,000 (about $104,000).

[rubber_ducky]

Originally Posted by hl0m4n

official engine specs: http://www.autoblog.com/2010/02/22/o...450-hp-4-2l-v/

NA 4.2L Direct Injection V8
450 HP
370 TQ
8250 Redline

Price is ridiculous, i don't care if it comes to the states anymore but in europe it will be €77,000 (about $104,000).

Like every other car, the price in the US won't be the euro price normalized to US dollars using a random exchange rate. It'll have it's own MSRP for the NA market. Which, if history is indication, will be a far better buy compared to the european market.

Edit: I just noticed that the m3 coupe is 68.350,00 EUR... which make the RS5 significantly more expensive than the M3 in their home market. I'm willing to bet that Audi doesn't bring this car here due to their not being able to price it competitively.

[Schumacher]

Originally Posted by graider

and your point is?

why don't you buy a prius, almost no sound for you.

He just needs to defend the S4. Sounds like a food blender.

[Garduna]

Current M3 is 68,350 Euro
RS5 that's gonna be coming out in April will be 77,000 Euro.

I really love the RS5 and the specs are great but wtf is with that price? I could see it being 72,000 Euro but 77,000??? That is a lot!

In the Canadian Market, the M3 cost 71,300. So lets assume if the RS5 does make it to Canada that the price will be around 75-80k. If the performance blows or at least surpasses the current M3, than a mid 70k price tag would be fine. If however, it doesn't out performs the M3, than the extra premium would make it a hard car to sell I'd think.

Thoughts?

[McCartney]

Originally Posted by Garduna

Current M3 is 68,350 Euro
RS5 that's gonna be coming out in April will be 77,000 Euro.

I really love the RS5 and the specs are great but wtf is with that price? I could see it being 72,000 Euro but 77,000??? That is a lot!

In the Canadian Market, the M3 cost 71,300. So lets assume if the RS5 does make it to Canada that the price will be around 75-80k. If the performance blows or at least surpasses the current M3, than a mid 70k price tag would be fine. If however, it doesn't out performs the M3, than the extra premium would make it a hard car to sell I'd think.

Thoughts?

I think of all markets, this car will sell the best in the States.

It would be a foolish mistake to think this car will not sell well in North America. Compared to the M3 this thing is a no brainer. Granted it's going to be 15k ISH more than the M3 but it's way better suited to this climate than it is to Europe.

Would it be so surprising to see that the pricing will be equivalent to that of the M3? Where the North Americans don't get gouged, and the Europeans pay a proper price. I can't see Audi continuing this trend, especially when people like myself have only shied away from their cars because of reliability, which has been fixed.

[footie]

Unless the UK is dramatically different to Europe I doubt the price of the RS5 will be much different to an eqivalently specced M3, i.e. one with DCT, sound package, 19" alloys and the all important 'competition package'. Sure you can go for a joe basic M3 but it won't be a proper comparison.

Now with this in mind, is it possible that Audi will try and be more price competitive in the US and Canada as it is with the S4?

[McCartney]

You would think so footie. People like myself are even willing to pay a bit more, but not much more.

This car fills a PERFECT hole in the Canadian market. It is an M3 with AWD and a much better DSG (Since you know your stuff I'm sure you will agree that the DSG in the RS5 > M3).

Even with their horrid reliability track-record (until recently) it is quite possible there are more people than myself who will actually purchase their vehicles.

Price it right Audi, price it right... If you do, we will come.

The M3 here (with the options I want) is 88k CAD. If the RS5 is 95, I'll take it. Hands down.

[graider]

Originally Posted by McCartney

You would think so footie. People like myself are even willing to pay a bit more, but not much more.

This car fills a PERFECT hole in the Canadian market. It is an M3 with AWD and a much better DSG (Since you know your stuff I'm sure you will agree that the DSG in the RS5 > M3).

Even with their horrid reliability track-record (until recently) it is quite possible there are more people than myself who will actually purchase their vehicles.

Price it right Audi, price it right... If you do, we will come.

The M3 here (with the options I want) is 88k CAD. If the RS5 is 95, I'll take it. Hands down.

agree. i'm sure the rs5 will win some m3 fan base for sure if it is price 7k more than the m3 in canada. very appealing deal to me. hehe

but somehow I highly doubt it. I think it would be north of 100k in canada. make my word for it.

[McCartney]

Originally Posted by graider

agree. i'm sure the rs5 will win some m3 fan base for sure if it is price 7k more than the m3 in canada. very appealing deal to me. hehe

but somehow I highly doubt it. I think it would be north of 100k in canada. make my word for it.

At that pricepoint, most people with mid-life crises will opt for the M3. This gives people who want this swiss-army knife of cars some bargaining power. There is no way a 50 year old man who drives a camry and wants a toy will spring for this.

This is a car that screams daily driver. the M3 is not a daily driver in Canada. If I have to get an M3, i will have to make sure it is decent on winter roads. it will probably take a bit more caution, too.

Daily drivers aren't the sort of car the 50-year old guy (who drives either the sc430, or an m3.. sometimes an M5) will buy it for even a nickel more than an M3.

That's why I am hoping, at WORST, it's 100k plus tax. There is no way they will go over.

[shiggy]

Originally Posted by McCartney

At that pricepoint, most people with mid-life crises will opt for the M3. This gives people who want this swiss-army knife of cars some bargaining power. There is no way a 50 year old man who drives a camry and wants a toy will spring for this.

This is a car that screams daily driver. the M3 is not a daily driver in Canada. If I have to get an M3, i will have to make sure it is decent on winter roads. it will probably take a bit more caution, too.

Daily drivers aren't the sort of car the 50-year old guy (who drives either the sc430, or an m3.. sometimes an M5) will buy it for even a nickel more than an M3.

That's why I am hoping, at WORST, it's 100k plus tax. There is no way they will go over.

the car's MSRP is 77,000 euro....thats $109,000 CDN....add some options....your lookin at a $120,000 Audi RS5!!!!.......pfffttt....no freakin way!
probably the reason why Audi NA had said it may not come here!

[McCartney]

Originally Posted by shiggy

the car's MSRP is 77,000 euro....thats $109,000 CDN....add some options....your lookin at a $120,000 Audi RS5!!!!.......pfffttt....no freakin way!
probably the reason why Audi NA had said it may not come here!

I agree with you 110%.

Audi would be incredibly stupid to have a brand new car rival a lightly used and equivalently-equipped R8 at that price.

Which is why if they want to survive in our market they will do what they did for the S4, adjust the prices.

The S4 used to be 70 000, it's easy to forget that. Now they start at 52,300 which is what they should have been to begin with. The problem Audi had was pricing their S cars so incredibly high that they set up a competition between the S4 and M3. Up until 5-6 years ago I used to think the S4 was the M3 equivalent.

Now that they seem to be aligning their prices properly, I cannot see this being more 100 plus tax.

If it is way more than that, and it's a real possibility it could be something in the range of what you mentioned, then I'll get an 011 M3.

IT would be an absolute shame to see Audi die in NA slowly pricing things that stupidly.. I can't see them making the same mistake twice.

I think auto manufacturers forget that selling a >55k USD car to a continent that has, maybe, 1 percent of the population that can comfortably afford it isn't easy.

Now if they get stupid and overprice it, then why build it? Their purpose is to sell cars. The R8s they claim were "flying" off the lot. Those are the same R8s you can get for 120 with about 7000 MILES and R-Tronic with everything.

Now granted the R8 has an amazing chassis (among other things), what I'm getting at is they purposely used a 450 HP V8 from their RS4. It's to save money on R and D.

If the car had the Biturbo V8 or V6 as many thought it would, then I couldn't see it not being in the R8 range.

That engine is great, don't get me wrong, but they could have done better.

I think they're learning.

[hl0m4n]

based on this video from insideline the rs5 should be in US showrooms in fall:

(end of video)

if priced right this might be my next car .

[SchnellM3]

Who knows but Im sure well see it a commercial bashing BMW and Mercedes

[footie]

Originally Posted by McCartney

I agree with you 110%.

Audi would be incredibly stupid to have a brand new car rival a lightly used and equivalently-equipped R8 at that price.

Which is why if they want to survive in our market they will do what they did for the S4, adjust the prices.

The S4 used to be 70 000, it's easy to forget that. Now they start at 52,300 which is what they should have been to begin with. The problem Audi had was pricing their S cars so incredibly high that they set up a competition between the S4 and M3. Up until 5-6 years ago I used to think the S4 was the M3 equivalent.

Now that they seem to be aligning their prices properly, I cannot see this being more 100 plus tax.

If it is way more than that, and it's a real possibility it could be something in the range of what you mentioned, then I'll get an 011 M3.

IT would be an absolute shame to see Audi die in NA slowly pricing things that stupidly.. I can't see them making the same mistake twice.

I think auto manufacturers forget that selling a >55k USD car to a continent that has, maybe, 1 percent of the population that can comfortably afford it isn't easy.

Now if they get stupid and overprice it, then why build it? Their purpose is to sell cars. The R8s they claim were "flying" off the lot. Those are the same R8s you can get for 120 with about 7000 MILES and R-Tronic with everything.

Now granted the R8 has an amazing chassis (among other things), what I'm getting at is they purposely used a 450 HP V8 from their RS4. It's to save money on R and D.

If the car had the Biturbo V8 or V6 as many thought it would, then I couldn't see it not being in the R8 range.

That engine is great, don't get me wrong, but they could have done better.

I think they're learning.

You may be thinking a bit to highly of your US market to believe that Audi need it as badly as BMW do. The simple truth is that Audi are stronger than all the other premium brands in the quickest growing markets like China, so the US has much less on a hold on it's worldwide sales then it does for BMW. In fact by all reckoning Audi will have overtaken BMW's world sales by 2014, not a bad achievement for a sub-brand of parent company VW.

Though I do feel that Audi are readjusting their pricing policy in the US and I agree that all future models will be priced more competitively.

[McCartney]

When will Audi announce this monster's arrival to North America?

If it's not announced for NA by April/MAY Latest, I'm just going to buy an M3. I can't wait any longer. I've waited 2 years, and now these assholes are giving deliveries in FALL? I want to enjoy my car in winter.

Footie, you need to find this out for me man. I'm dying here. I need this bloody car. And I wish I thought highly of the American market, I'm actually from Canada (We are british too, you know... We just sound weird!).

UGH if I have to get an M3, seriously. THIS CAR IS SO FUCKING NICE!

And btw YOUYOU, my parents do not lease their cars. I know lots of people do, but leasing isn't the same as owning the car...

My parents also get vehicle loans for nearly 0 percent (subprime of 0.9) and that's largely because they operate a high-equity business.

*shrug*

[E92Fan]

Thought you guys might like these -

I took the following images at the Nurburgring last Summer (August) when the RS5 was being tested on an industry day. It sounded utterly UNGODLY