[masd79]

Originally Posted by EUPremier

Easy!

Don’t go giving me any buyer’s remorse now!! 🙈🙈🙈

Unfortunately it will be like the first year g80 buyers all got stuck with rwd

[Raudiace4]

I agree with TH. The last gen E63s is still the best car out of these 3. G90 is hilariously overweight and ugly, straight line speed means nothing.

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by Raudiace4

I agree with TH. The last gen E63s is still the best car out of these 3. G90 is hilariously overweight and ugly, straight line speed means nothing.

Wait until you see the next gen E63 and RS7... all will be heavyweight

[thaalrasha]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

Wait until you see the next gen E63 and RS7... all will be heavyweight

And / or possibly without a V8...

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by thaalrasha

And / or possibly without a V8...

Yup

[EUPremier]

Originally Posted by thaalrasha

That's so true, a hybrid driven long distances or like a sports car will use way more gas and make way more Co2 emissions than a pure ICE... I had for a short while a 330e and this thing was emptying it's tank and consumed way more than any M cars I had on a road trip, the weight penalty on consumption cannot be overstated, the Co2 figures and tax break a pure hypocrisies. The only thing it was kind of good at was short distance commute in pure EV mode (even then you could argue it's also penalised by having to carry an ICE in the front bay)...

I totally disagree with this and suspect you were charging your 330e on a daily basis?

I have recently offloaded my 545e and it was a fuel miser. You just charge the battery and use the navigation system.

Use of BMW’s nav (as opposed to Carplay /Android Auto) triggers ‘Anticipation Mode’ where the car feeds EV to the drivetrain to lessen ICE burden based on the map’s topograpic data.

Dratically reduces fuel consumption.

When the elimination of gas-consumption for regular daily commutes is included and averaged out over a year, the savings are huge, particularly when compared to F90.

[EUPremier]

Originally Posted by ASAP

I have absolutely no idea... my secret thinking is that this is a test bed for some sort of ev hybrid tech for the future more than anything, maybe a future M3 when the batteries get smaller or more efficient... but that's many years away. They've already said the next m3 will likely be a normal hybrid... which is what this should have been... again, no idea what the goal here was as it appears minimal effort was put in.

Really?

It massively reduces gas consumption!

What part of that don’t you get?

The by-product of this is also masses of torque.

You need to consider the use-case for most drivers: The WLTP cycle is 23.25km or 14.5miles which is considered the amount of average daily miles most users do.

The G90 allows us to drive 3x the WLTP standard each day on EV alone -over 40miles.
That gets most people, most, not all, to & from work or their daily commitments. No gas. No local pollution and possibly none at all for those charging with wind or solar.

Yes, on Route 66 traversing the USA, the PHEV won’t be more efficient than an equivalent ICE. But, the long journeys are the outliers in how most folk use their vehicles.
For the urban/suburbanites amongst us, this drivetrain will have folk forgetting the last time they saw a gas station… unless they’re choosing to drive hard.

[EUPremier]

Originally Posted by Wolf

Your statement stands right until the batteries run out of juice. I wish we can see some drag races with the EV power dead. Until then, the vehicles are not comparable.

50miles of drga racing?

You’re not living in the real World.

Most of us will drive on the G90 on Motorways etc. Few of us will be taking a luxury sedan to the track.

So, are we building a car for the majority or the few?

Newsflash: M5 is not intended as a track car. And that’s okay.

It’ll still be ready to deliver boisterimg performance on the road where 99% of us will use it.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by EUPremier

Really?

It massively reduces gas consumption!

What part of that don’t you get?

The by-product of this is also masses of torque.

You need to consider the use-case for most drivers: The WLTP cycle is 23.25km or 14.5miles which is considered the amount of average daily miles most users do.

The G90 allows us to drive 3x the WLTP standard each day on EV alone -over 40miles.
That gets most people, most, not all, to & from work or their daily commitments. No gas. No local pollution and possibly none at all for those charging with wind or solar.

Yes, on Route 66 traversing the USA, the PHEV won’t be more efficient than an equivalent ICE. But, the long journeys are the outliers in how most folk use their vehicles.
For the urban/suburbanites amongst us, this drivetrain will have folk forgetting the last time they saw a gas station… unless they’re choosing to drive hard.

A normal hybrid would do the same thing... without a 1k lb penalty lol... the weight alone of the vehicle drops the mpg. As far as an M5 being an M5.... I think you need to look in the mirror and what this car is supposed to be. EU or USA, I've never ever seen a high mileage M5 with above 75k miles unless the car is ancient which means no one really drives these long distances or seriously commutes with them... again... mpg in this car should have minimal real world concern to anyone that buys a 700 HP sedan for over $100K usd or 100k GBP unless we live on different planets.

[Alan l.]

If BMW was reading these threads they would be scratching their heads confused. Everything people are whining about how the M5 should be X Y Z.....they already make sedan like that. Its called the M3. Why don't everyone go out and buy one of those? Its because its not what everyone wants or needs

Alan

[M6-Coupe]

Originally Posted by Alan l.

If BMW was reading these threads they would be scratching their heads confused. Everything people are whining about how the M5 should be X Y Z.....they already make sedan like that. Its called the M3. Why don't everyone go out and buy one of those? Its because its not what everyone wants or needs

Alan

Well I guess there should be something between M3 and G90 people are looking for as M5.
M3 is 189" while G90 is 200"
M3 is 39xx lb while G90 is 53xx lb
M3 has I6 ICE engine while M5 has V8 ICE + E motor.
I think what is proper (in people opinion) is something in size of F90 with newer technology and S68 ICE engine rated at 700 HP or so performing 2.5 seconds 0-60 , 10 seconds 1/4 mile and 7:20ish Nurburgring lap.
But BMW designers/marketing team do not think like this and that's why we have G90 now.

[thaalrasha]

Originally Posted by EUPremier

I totally disagree with this and suspect you were charging your 330e on a daily basis?

I have recently offloaded my 545e and it was a fuel miser. You just charge the battery and use the navigation system.

Use of BMW’s nav (as opposed to Carplay /Android Auto) triggers ‘Anticipation Mode’ where the car feeds EV to the drivetrain to lessen ICE burden based on the map’s topograpic data.

Dratically reduces fuel consumption.

When the elimination of gas-consumption for regular daily commutes is included and averaged out over a year, the savings are huge, particularly when compared to F90.

Yes for normal comutes it works well (so most of the time for normal users), but if you drive it like a sports car or do 800 kms in a day it's just going to use more fuel than without a weight penalty from the battery ... it's just physics... In my road trips the hybrid was just bad to utterly catastrophic in cinsomuption and refueling compared to my M cars.

[EUPremier]

Originally Posted by thaalrasha

Yes for normal comutes it works well (so most of the time for normal users), but if you drive it like a sports car or do 800 kms in a day it's just going to use more fuel than without a weight penalty from the battery ... it's just physics... In my road trips the hybrid was just bad to utterly catastrophic in cinsomuption and refueling compared to my M cars.

My wife has a 730d to drive 5 minutes to work.
It’s given trouble with the exhaust recirculation system and DPF filter …precisely because she doesn’t drive it for long enough journeys.
Good car: Wrong use case.

Diesel is great for high-mile’ing. Great MPG.

My typical daily use is suburban /urban and would fully charge a PHEV each night or when its parked at home or office.

I do inter-city trips every two weeks.

These are about 500km round trip and would set out on a full charge on at least one direction.

PHEV works in this case as the overall average is EV-supported.

I agree with you entirely, PHEV is the wrong machine for regular 800mile trips.

However, if a huge trip like that is the outlier, it’s fine.

I was a PHEV doubter. Until I owned one and my use case suits the model.

I’ve owned both E60 & F10 M5s and their fuel consumption was grievous around town. It was there all the time… and that becomes tiring when you’re paying big money per litre.

[Kevin_The_Clean1]

We're now mainly focused & concerned with strictly straight line numbers simply because we all know... the M5 is no longer a dynamic & agile occasional track machine by any means.

[masd79]

Originally Posted by Moewron

This. It's very clear that the majority of the posters on BMW forums and the BMW subreddit are people who are just there to complain and troll. I don't understand why people go post on a car forum for a car they don't like. Like, I think the G Wagon is the stupidest car being made, but never in a million years would I go to the G-Wagon forum and post shit. Just seems childish.

Disagree, I think most negative people are actual or potential buyers who are borderline crapping their pants committing to purchase a $130k sedan. It’s a genuine worry, and people are looking for validation.

[masd79]

Originally Posted by Alan l.

I guess the same could be said about how many people are going to take their M5 into corners on their daily commute where you feel like the weight of the vehicle is hindering how fast you get to your destination.

I've watched every single YT review on this car and my take away from all of them is that this car is:

Faster than the F90 in a straight line
Not as nimble in corners
More compliant suspension for daily use
Usable EV only range

All sounds good to me.

Alan

Corners? Everyday for me. Anyone who doesn’t expect thier M to do that safely, should buy a Cadillac.

[masd79]

Originally Posted by M6-Coupe

Well I guess there should be something between M3 and G90 people are looking for as M5.
M3 is 189" while G90 is 200"
M3 is 39xx lb while G90 is 53xx lb
M3 has I6 ICE engine while M5 has V8 ICE + E motor.
I think what is proper (in people opinion) is something in size of F90 with newer technology and S68 ICE engine rated at 700 HP or so performing 2.5 seconds 0-60 , 10 seconds 1/4 mile and 7:20ish Nurburgring lap.
But BMW designers/marketing team do not think like this and that's why we have G90 now.

On this note what is g90’s quarter mile compared to the f90 comp?

[Alan l.]

Originally Posted by masd79

Corners? Everyday for me. Anyone who doesn’t expect thier M to do that safely, should buy a Cadillac.

You must be a race car driver if you are pushing the limits of this car on a daily commute. Sounds like a typical BMW driver.

Despite all of the reviews posted online about this car holding its own in the power and handling department people still feel the need to bash it BEFORE they've driven it.

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by Kevin_The_Clean1

We're now mainly focused & concerned with strictly straight line numbers simply because we all know... the M5 is no longer a dynamic & agile occasional track machine by any means.

The problem with all these reviews is they are all subjective and feeling.

To say the M5 isn't track-capable or not dynamic is too early. No one has done any testing. What if the M5 feels heavy but dynamically turns in better, with better braking and more lateral grip? It already appears to be faster, and in 98% of all cases, it turns faster lap times.

Subjective to data, it may be a faster and better driving car. Driver just has to change braking and apex points. You can't drive a 911 gt3 rs the same way you drive a brz but both are capable.


However, on a mental note from the driver, they just need more time to adjust and change their perspective on the weight.

People are all complaining without A) driving a production car dynamically for a few days B) nobody has done any testing or lap times with data C) this is base spec

We need more time before we can bash and then see how BMW responds to feedback and the new RS7 and E63.

Remember every generation of M car has been different from its last generation and with changed perspective

[M5ddox]

Originally Posted by subterFUSE

My brother owns a Plaid. Biggest piece of garbage I have driven since the mid 1990s.

What in particular do you hate about it? Literally been in two teslas ever as Ubers but felt the interior was cheap, utilitarian garbage design and the road noise was insane. Car felt like I’d glided very cheaply, movement didn’t feel solid. Lacks all passion in driving.

Haha I just want more ammo because I’m surrounded by granola F$&@ Tesla drivers and need more ammo to argument.

[Moewron]

just keep using the word "argument" as a verb, and you'll make them angry enough as it is.

[subterFUSE]

Originally Posted by M5ddox

What in particular do you hate about it? Literally been in two teslas ever as Ubers but felt the interior was cheap, utilitarian garbage design and the road noise was insane. Car felt like I’d glided very cheaply, movement didn’t feel solid. Lacks all passion in driving.

Short answer, build quality.

The Plaid was only 3 months old when I drove it, and already the interior dash and steering wheel had surface coatings rubbed off. It's like they painted the dash and steering yoke and the paint was rubbing off. When I closed the doors they would rattle and shake the car, and I had to slam the doors to get them to fully close. It seemed like the doors were not aligned properly. The car was quick, but also felt very heavy and made me unsure that the power could be contained. The brakes seemed to be inadequate and mismatched for the power of the motors. I felt no confidence that the car could be controlled when driven hard.

Bottom line, I have been driving only BMW, Mercedes and Audi for the past 20 years and I believe this experience has led me into a certain expectation of build quality and handling. The Tesla did not conform to my expectation of quality.